There is no disagreement between myself and the noble Lord, Lord Glyn, or the noble Lord, Lord Cherwell, whose speeches I have listened to and read with great interest, in connection with this important matter. Date: 1914-1920 Arrangement: the experience of two world wars behind us, and of the essential part which the Merchant Navy played in those wars, we should be asking for trouble if, for short-term advantage, we did anything to weaken the man-power of our Merchant Fleet. If you're over 18 years old, you can be called for jury service. Yiannis Baboulias explains why forcing young men to spend time in the military would be damaging and costly There has lately been every indication that other countries are maintaining the lead in this field. These men, stewards, cooks, waiters and the like, are carried in all types of merchant ships to cater for the crew as well as for the passengers; and waiters in passenger liners are a very small part of the catering section of the Merchant Navy. and the R.N.R. I am sure it is the right policy that every encouragement should be given 448 I was greatly surprised, and agreeably surprised, to see the number of apprentices, which, of course, would include a number of technicians and probably scientists as well. 443 And to boggle at exempting them whilst allowing any lad who holds a post on a luxury liner to escape from his National Service is surely very difficult to justify. I will say nothing more about that. I do not think there is any industry where there is closer association than there is in the Mercantile Marine, through the National Maritime Board, in dealing with all matters of complaint of any kind—increases of wages, conditions of employment, and so on. In common parlance, perhaps, most people think that a seaman is a man who pulls on a rope—possibly what is called a deckhand. 3 Freedom of Information Act Exemptions . I spoke to the Minister of Labour about this matter some years ago. The National Service (Armed Forces) Act imposed conscription on all males aged between 18 and 41 who had to register for service. Unofficially, it was also decided not to … In all those things we are lamentably short of skilled manpower that we require. Expansion of Interview Waiver Eligibility. Had all the applications been granted, there would have been very little National Service, and the difficulties we should have been faced with long before today would have been great. Certain business travelers, investors, treaty traders, academics, students, and journalists may qualify for national interest exceptions under Presidential Proclamations (PPs) 9993 (Schengen Area) and 9996 (United Kingdom and Ireland). All able-bodied South Korean men aged between 18 … There are bound to he certain rivalries among departments—between the engineers, the deck and so forth—but by good will they work together. Face coverings exemptions The following are EXEMPT from the requirement to wear a face covering on public transport services: Children under the age of 11 Employees of, or persons providing agreed services … Graduates in science are particularly valuable to the Services as potential officers in the technical arms, and qualified men are badly needed by the Education Corps of the three Services for teaching in technical training colleges. I think your Lordships will agree with me that it is essential that, in the event of war, we should have immediately available a large body of trained seamen, and with One should note that occupational exemption was rarely absolute. In addition, all students are allowed to finish their studies and to obtain their degrees before they are called up. It was originally suggested that they should be under different regulations, but that would do very great harm. of what the noble Lord has said I am in entire agree- Surely no one can defend this sort of inverted privilege, which penalises brains and ability and wastes our national substance without one iota of advantage to the State. We must not overlook the Services' need for science and engineering graduates. 2677 Exemption from the requirement to hold a licence: applicable turnover 8.—(1) A person who provides health care services for the purposes of the NHS (P) is exempt 451 I can assure my noble friend, Lord Cherwell, that we do try to use National Servicemen who are skilled in a particular job in a job for which they are well suited. But the fact remains that, for the time being at any rate, we must maintain our defences. Motion was drafted. The GOV.UK proposition helps people in government departments and agencies who need to publish information or services for the public to use. Moreover, the demands of the Merchant Navy for trained manpower in war time are very large and are increased by the movement to the Royal Navy. § As I say, I recognise that it is necessary to have National Service and that it should be fairly administered, and that there are these three categories of the population who were exempted in the terms of the original Bill—that is to say, the coalminers who actually work at the face, the agricultural labourers and the Merchant Navy. and for the R.N.V.R., and also under that system known as T.124 under which a great many crews of liners were transferred to the Navy in the last war. Disposing of waste. It is no good giving these things to a mutton-fisted man, because they are costly and very delicate. It is true that this exemption has recently been tightened up, and I understand that exemption is now granted only in cases of emergency. So far as the public are concerned, all they want to be sure of is that the scheme is properly administered, without fear or favour. In his Motion, my noble friend Lord Glyn asks for an immediate review tc be rondo of those persons who are excused National Service. From 1 January 1949, all fit young men between 17 and 21 years of age were required to serve in the armed forces for 18 months, and remain on … As Lord Hall has shown, there is no need to bore your Lordships with arguments about the vital need of the country to keep ahead in science and technology—that, I gather, is generally accepted. § : Camping and Caravanning Exemptions Team, First Floor Zone C, Natural England, Eastbrook, Shaftesbury Road, Cambridge, CB2 8DR . These bonds were strengthened by the discipline imposed on them from basic training onwards. Since 1949 there has been a scheme under which scientists and engineering graduates have been deferred for employment on a limited number of research and development projects, mostly connected with the defence programme. These deferments are granted, in the national interest, to men employed in certain coalmining occupations; to merchant seamen; to sea-going fishermen who are members of the Royal Naval Reserve (Patrol Service); to regular whole-time agricultural workers born before 1933; to a comparatively small number of highly skilled scientists and engineers engaged on urgent work of high priority or on fundamental research; to a small number of shale oil underground workers, and to a small number of police cadets. The maintenance charges of all the Services for these complicated weapons is something which is often not recognised, and is largely due to the fact that there is inadequate training in the handling of them. If a national interest exception is approved, they may travel on either a valid visa or ESTA authorization, as appropriate. Yet when a suggestion was put forward that the appalling shortage of science masters might be alleviated by allowing scientists to teach in schools during their two-years' service, the proposal was, to put it mildly, certainly not welcomed. They also serve who…stand and wait, In the United Kingdom, conscription has existed for two periods in modern times. The Air Force depends on how efficient the manufacturers are. With very few exceptions, people, in Parliament and outside, believe that National Service is a necessity at the present time. he has made my task very much easier. When he reaches that age, he avoids the call-up altogether. in rising to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper, I desire first to apologise to your Lordships for the wording of the Motion, which I am afraid has given a somewhat false impression. The National Archives is the UK government's official archive. The National Service Act 1948 was an Act of Parliament which extended the British conscription of the Second World War long after the war-time need for it had expired, in the form of "National Service". My Lords, like other noble Lords who have spoken, I gather that Lord Glyn, who had come to curse us, remanis to praise. Granting national interest exceptions for this travel to the United States from the Schengen area, UK, and Ireland, will assist with the economic recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic and bolster key components of our transatlantic relationship. It is possibly not quite so easy to justify the exemption of agricultural workers, though here, again, the importance of manning—perhaps I ought to say "boying"—the agricultural industry is universally agreed, and no doubt there are arguments for exempting genuine merchant seamen. 444 I hope and believe that that time has now come, and that that review can be made with advantage to all concerned. To do this and to carry out our commitments we have no alternative but to continue National Service. My Lords, in common with some of your Lordships who have spoken, when I first looked at the terms of the Motion which has been moved by my noble friend this afternoon I did not think he would make the sort of speech to which we have listened. § I need not waste your Lordships' time further. I have no doubt that the number who do so is so small that it would be very wrong indeed to tar the whole of the catering staff of the Mercantile Marine with that brush. I got in touch with the trade union side of the National Maritime Board to ascertain what their attitude was to this Motion. But others relished the opportunities and experiences it gave them. Men were exempt from National Service if they worked in one of the three "essential services" of coal-mining, farming and the Merchant Navy. If I have misinterpreted the noble Lord, I apologise, but there are people who would like all scientists to be deferred because of their great importance to industry and research. 445 437 the Government Front Bench. Certain business travelers, investors, treaty traders, academics, students, and journalists may qualify for national interest exceptions under Presidential Proclamations (PPs) 9993 (Schengen Area) and 9996 (United Kingdom and Ireland). It is laid down that a man who wishes to qualify as a chief engineer cannot possibly be taken away from his duties at sea and brought back to do service with the Navy, thus interfering very much with his training. National Service (NS) is ever the hot topic in Singapore, being one of the few matters that always sparks debate and spurs discussion. It really indicates a lack of understanding of what really conditions a nation's progress and prosperity, not to mention prestige, which we must regret. Yet these young men are called up for National Service with the greatest rigour, and made to do "square-bashing" or perhaps even peeling potatoes just at the most fertile period of their lives—an age when, notoriously, two years' interruption will very likely do irretrievable harm to their capacity to think out new theories and discover new facts. I shall not detain the House any longer because, as I say, with 90 per cent. I was under the impression that the noble Lord was linking his Motion with the unfortunate happenings in regard to a few members of the Mercantile Marine branches a few weeks ago; and I certainly was under the impression that he had no knowledge of the machinery which existed in the Mercantile Marine for the purpose of dealing with the points which I was under the impression he was going to raise. Links to external websites are provided as a convenience and should not be construed as an endorsement by the U.S. Department of State of the views or products contained therein. 433 So that once a man has been in the Merchant Navy, and his National Service has been deferred because he was in the Merchant Navy, he will be called up in the Merchant Navy. I know of cases where great trouble has been taken in regard to an individual who has achieved a high place in scientific research. When one reads through the debates that took place in both Houses when the National Service Acts were under discussion, it becomes clear that the general opinion was, and I think still is, that there are certain occupations of such national importance that it is justifiable that for the time being the persons in them shall be exempt from National Service up to the age of twenty-six. no deferment after he has got his degree except in the circumstances I have described. There seems to be a want of balance and planning about it all. § Colleagues of mine and members of my own Party in another place have been anxious that in view of the changed circumstances, there should be an examination of National Service with a view to reducing the period from two years to eighteen months. Surely everybody must realise that their researches lie at the root of all progress. The first was during the First World War and the second ran from 1939 to 1960. I beg to move for Papers. That a highly-educated doctor of science doing first-class work in the subject in which he has been trained at great public expense, should be called up to peel potatoes whilst an unskilled waiter is exempted in order to serve potatoes on a luxury liner, is surely neither right nor reasonable. Therefore, the subject should have been dropped. I am delighted to hear what the noble Lord, Lord Glyn, has said. Then there is the whole field of nuclear energy—a new science, and one of paramount importance. In some countries there are alternative forms of national service in the secondary lines. 449 National Interest Exceptions for Certain Travelers from the Schengen Area, United Kingdom, and Ireland. The blind and mentally ill, clergymen, and men in overseas government positions were all officially exempt from National Service. It would be difficult to discriminate as between the departments or between the various ranks in any one department. On the one hand we have selected young men Details of the application process are available from charity-neo@culture.gov.uk List of Holders of an Exemption Order The 47 holders of Orders of Exemption made under Section 3 of the House to House Collections Act 1939 are: Action Aid 33-39 Bowling Green Lane London EC1R 0BJ Action for Children 3 The Boulevard Ascot Road In that way it was possible to arm marine ships, and indeed, to transfer these men to the Royal Navy, the R.N.V.R. If it is right that certain qualifications should, under strict supervision, exempt men from National Service in one case, at this juncture it may be right to consider whether that system should not be expanded in other directions. Therefore, the catering staff are essential in that regard. explain what is the overall position with regard to deferment of National Service—deferment, not exemption, for there is no exemption. My Lords, in rising to ask permission to withdraw the demand for Papers, I should like to say that perhaps my fault today has arisen because I am rather new to the procedure of this House. But the matter goes further. No one would deny that at all. The current Executive Order is 13526. The strike was damaging but was of short duration. If a man is a farm labourer all his life until he dies, then he has been exempt from National Service. I'm probably going to get some flak for this but there are people who practice the dark arts of getting yourself exempt from combat service in NS. 435 Exemptions from military service in WW1 The British Government introduced conscription in March 1916 because voluntary enlistment could no longer meet the army’s need for recruits. Tel: Sharon Sharpe on 0300 0602098 or Paul Ackers on 0300 0601081 . One curious thing is that on the railways, both in this country and on the Continent, it is a recognised fact that in an emergency a man who is an efficient driver or an efficient railway engineer would be exempted from ordinary military service and would do as a soldier the work he normally does, because without that form of communication the Army I am sorry that was not here to listen to the whole of his speech. But then the usual thing happened—the proposal had to be submitted to "the relevant Committee." My Lords, I, too, came here this afternoon intending to run up alongside the noble Lord and deliver a broadside, only to find that he has spiked his own guns. I am not suggesting for a single moment that total exemption should be granted to these people, but I am asking that the Ministry of Defence and the Service Departments of the Government should consider whether there is any alternative form of service which can be undertaken by these people, so that they will make their contribution—which they should do, as everyone else—in such a form and in such a manner that it will not interfere with their progress and study as much as it does at present. Students traveling from the Schengen Area, the UK, and Ireland with valid F-1 and M-1 visas do not need to contact an embassy or consulate to seek an individual national interest exception to travel. I think new that opinion is unanimous that it would be a mistake to alter the system whereby merchant seamen of good character are deferred, provided that they remain at sea until they are 26. in those occupations would be available for service with the Regular Forces; therefore, it was far better that they should continue at their work and training, so that they could become proficient in their callings. There is I think that the noble Lord, Lord Cherwell, has perhaps poured rather too much cold water on this idea. There is, in particular, a shortage of deck ratings, and it was found in the last war that peace time catering ratings, with their previous sea experience, most of them having passed through the National Sea Training schools and having had basic training in seamanship, made better material for training for the deck department than untrained men. It is not only in large liners that there must be efficient catering staff; there must be efficient cooks, waiters and stewards in other categories of ships. § In asking leave to withdraw the demand for Papers, I should like to express the hope that the debate which has taken place will be of assistance to all concerned with National Service. And this merely in order to fit them to fight when everybody knows that, far from being allowed to fight, on the outbreak of war they would instantly be drafted back to their laboratories. I want to come now to what may be a solution of this difficult question. Ministry of National Service: Records Description: Files relating to policy or to matters of permanent interest dealt with by the Trade Exemptions, Medical, Labour Supply, Finance and Organization, Recruiting and Recording Departments of the Ministry of National Service. You can ask to be excluded when you're over 70. Lest noble Lords opposite should think I am making a plea for boys from what I believe are called the higher income brackets, I hasten to add that most of these highly-trained scientists to whom I have alluded have come up to the universities on State scholarships or the like, and have advanced to their leading positions purely on the strength of their intellectual ability. According to the National Archives, the majority of appeals were dismissed and many people did go on to see war service. § I know that he now A large number of young men join the Merchant Navy for the purpose of making their careers at sea. It is vital that they turn out a good aircraft. § Qualified travelers who are applying for or have valid visas or ESTA authorization may travel to the United States even as PPs 9993 and 9996 remain in effect following the procedures below. There is one point I must mention. I have mentioned cases in which deferment, admittedly on a small scale, has been granted. There are electricians, butchers, clerks, plumbers, cooks, radio operators, et cetera, and it surely is only possible to define a seaman in the legal sense, as one who has signed on ship's articles under the Merchant Shipping Act. I believe that exceptions to this rule should be made only in cases where it has been shown conclusively that deferment is of greater benefit and importance to the country than call-up. I think it might be for the convenience of your Lordships if, very briefly, I were to But in fact it continually happens that if a man who is of calling-up age ceases to be satisfactory in his service at sea, his papers come through and he is called up in the ordinary way. All of those men are essential to the ship as a passenger ship, and I do not think that In all Parties, having assented to National Service, we are desirous of dealing with it as far as we possibly can on a basis of universality of service, providing we do not waste effort that could be far better directed in the defence of the country. 432 If it were a matter of possessing special skill or knowledge, the reasoning would be perfectly sound, but little attention is paid to that aspect. I do not believe for a moment that he would wish to be put in a special category. § You must have the name and address of the individual, farm or organisation that will be carrying out the waste operations. I regret to say that they persuaded the Minister to accept a plan so restricted in its scope that not more than fifty of these high-grade scholars can be exempted in any one year—and § One has only to go there to find out how great is the difficulty of maintaining the course as it should be, if certain individuals have to leave their studies at a critical time in order to carry out their National Service obligations. The salary he has been offered by people in the United States is such that he, being a married man, really has no choice except to go. I have served both desk and combat jobs and lived through it. Bonds formed quickly between men from disparate backgrounds, thrown together in a strange situation. That, I am sure, is also quite true. I think it was realised at the time that there might be a few men who would join the catering department in order to avoid National Service; but, on balance, it was considered at the time that this comparatively small risk must be accepted. The allocation between the two is not an easy matter, but I can assure your Lordships that my right honourable friend the Minister of Labour will continue, as he has done in the past, to meet the requirements of these two interests as fairly as possible. On the other hand, we have unskilled, often relatively uneducated, lads, only marginally learning to man our merchant ships, and very often learning to do odd jobs in the catering trade, in a floating luxury hotel. The crew of a modern ship to-day, whether a cargo ship, a liner cr a man-o'-war, covers almost every trade under the sun. As Lord Glyn and, I think, Lord Hall said, there are cases of young men, again very largely trained at the taxpayers' expense, going abroad. I venture to think that the time is opportune when, quietly, the whole question could be gone into of how far military service can be alternated with some other form of service, so that it fits in with the continued education of the men we must have for the efficiency of all three Services and for the prosperity and success of British industry. I ask your Lordships' leave to withdraw the Motion. My purpose in putting down this Motion was more to draw attention to the fact that there seems now to be an opportunity when these matters might be considered in a happier atmosphere, always maintaining that there must be a continuation of National Service but that also every effort must be made to give technical and technological education and research a very high place in the ordered affairs of the country. Under the terms of the Military Service Act, all medically fit single men between the ages of 19 and 41 were deemed to have enlisted in the armed forces on 2 March. As the House does not sit on a Friday, it is very difficult to withdraw a Motion. | Report other issues | © UK Parliament, THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (LORD CARRINGTON), MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER (COLNE VALLEY SEWERAGE BOARD) BILL. These occupations are, first of all, coalmining—miners are exempt if they work underground, but not if they work on the surface; the Merchant Navy and agriculture. But it would be abominable if anybody, whether he be merely a deck-washer or bar-tender, or even a hairdresser on a luxury liner, were thereby to be allowed entirely to escape from military service. Throughout the debates it was made clear that if an emergency arose, it was unlikely that persons But surely it must be clear that, from a national point of view, the work of highly-trained scientists is more important than carrying dishes from the kitchen to the serving tables in liners. 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